"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
05/09/2020 at 13:57 • Filed to: The Alfa Doesn't Have A Tag Yet
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"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
05/09/2020 at 13:57 • Filed to: The Alfa Doesn't Have A Tag Yet | 0
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As part of track day prep I figured a “performance” air filter might be a nice addition to the Alfa. It has not gone well.
The first filter I ordered went OK, until the seller contacted me and said they “inspected” the item and “found damage” and don’t have a replacement available. This is eBay speak for “we don’t actually stock anything we sell and we had a harder time than expected getting one.”
That order was canceled and I ordered another from eBay. And it was delivered yesterday!
To Wahoo, Nebraska.
Which is not where I live.
Oh hamburgers.
Ok so I assume either they gave me the wrong tracking info, or managed to ship some rando a filter for an Alfa Spider. Looking back through their feedback history the latter seems more probable, as there are a lot of “wrong item sent,” “wrong tracking sent” and “item sent to wrong address” entries.
Hooray.
So I guess I’m sticking with paper as there is a very low probability that I can get a new filter in time. Also I have little business spending $85 on an air filter so... heh.
Sovande
> Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
05/09/2020 at 14:07 |
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I wouldn’t put a K&N filter on anything I like that has a turbo. Or an engine. Sure, it’ll keep birds and small children from getting sucked into the intake, but no so much the dirt and sand you really want to keep out.
MM54
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 14:11 |
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Especially for a track day where you’re more likely to be picking up dirt and so on being kicked up from the other cars at high speeds (though it may be comparable to a highway in terms of dirt... either way I’d not want to run one)
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Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 14:13 |
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I’ve heard both ways, TBH, and haven’t really made up my mind either way. I’ve seen some flow data, but never an analysis of filtration or particulates through a K&N. Any thoughts there?
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Sovande
> Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
05/09/2020 at 14:19 |
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My experience is only with Volvos, but what I have read is that the pleated stock paper flat panel filters could flow as much as a K&N and had the added benefit of filtering out the dirt. You can hear the difference in a K&N filter. You can see through them. I would not run one on anything I liked. They are “high flow” for a reason and that reason is that they have big old holes in them.
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Sovande
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 14:21 |
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Additionally, in the C30 I think the limits of the stock air box are something on the order of 400hp. There is no reason to upgrade as stock is real good. Maybe there is some kind of math that can be done to see what the stock filter/box can flow?
jimz
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 14:22 |
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I wouldn’t put a K&N filter on anything I like.
simply put, the air filter element is not a meaningful restriction so long as it isn’t plugged to hell with dirt.
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Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 14:26 |
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C30 is running a stock filter and will remain so for a while. However, did just find this so.... cock. https://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
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jimz
> Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
05/09/2020 at 14:32 |
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ok, it’s not like if you put one on your car it’ll blow up right away or anything, but most tests seem to show that they don’t filter as well as a paper element, and any performance gains are nonexistent to negligible.
http://autohifidiszkont.hu/bmw-tuning.hu/aemszuroteszt.pdf
also, you have to be careful with the oil application. under-oiled they’re even worse at trapping dust, over-oiled they can foul things like mass air flow and intake temperature sensors.
a clean paper air filter simply does not present much of a meaningful restriction to airflow. and in a rare case where it does, you can get increased airflow by using a paper filter with more filter surface area. That’s what I would do instead of using any oiled gauze filter.
CaptDale - is secretly British
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 14:35 |
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Very incorrect information . As well as being very smart about the A series motor, this gentleman goes into great detail in the science and engineering about how the K&N filters clean amazingly well while having great flow.
thatsmr
> Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
05/09/2020 at 14:51 |
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Theres a reason why a car was built and equipped a certain way. If moar easy power was really available, it would have been taken advantage of. A clean stock system will serve you just fine. Are you running spica? I found it to be astonishingly robust!
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Sovande
> CaptDale - is secretly British
05/09/2020 at 15:15 |
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Look at the test that the OP referenced. They don't filter for shit on your street driven Mazda. They are unnecessary and do a worse job filtering particulates.
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CaptDale - is secretly British
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 20:36 |
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Well seems like that sized filter or the quality dropped off for at least those part numbers. interesting data for sure, but by far not enough to dismiss an entire line of products.
facw
> thatsmr
05/09/2020 at 20:52 |
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Of course car makers will also go to great lengths to save a few dollars, so it’s not absurd to think you can get “better than OEM” parts. On the other hand, that sort of sub- standard parts use to save a buck is less likely in terms of things effecting “ bragging rights” numbers like horsepower, and even more dubious for things that could increase fuel economy.
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facw
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 20:57 |
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I used one in my S40. Didn’t notice any difference in performance (certainly didn’t take it to a dyno before or after) , though the engine sounded throatier. Mainly I don’t really like the idea of disposable components where reusable ones are available. The re-oiling process seemed like a real pain with the K&N though, and I think there’s a decent chance I would have just tossed it had the change interval came up before Harvey totaled the car. I got a paper one from MAHLE when I bought the S60.
Jb boin
> Sovande
05/09/2020 at 21:07 |
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I got polyu reth ane (foam) filters in both of my cars (a Ramair on my A3 and a Pipercross on my A4) that are (i believe) better than the cotton filters by most metrics :
* Cotton filters are oiled which is not good for the MAF (both my car have one) and they need more frequent m aintenance which is also more complex (need to use special cleaner and oil at every clean)
* On tests, the polyurethane panel filters airflow/restriction are similar to cotton ones
* I believe that they are more durable
To be fair, t he most important real-life difference between a paper filter and a “performance” one on most cars is the intake noise, performance depends on how much the OE panel is restricting but its usually not going to make a sensible difference on a stock engine .
From different tests that i read, the paper filters are also clogging and increasing air resistance faster.
One of the simple reason its not fitted by manufacturers is that is c ost 10 times more than a paper filter and its simpler to tell the customer that they just have to change it (and making money selling a new part at each service) without having more complex cleaning process that could be done the wrong way .
I got a 70s IHI cultivator (a 2 wheel tractor) that comes from stock with a foam filter and i believe it was the same on its Honda predecessor ; to be fair , on modern machines they use filters that have foam on the outside and a paper eleme nt on the inside.
—
Bottom line : If you are often driving on dirt or putting filtration quality over intake sound and possible performance gains (most probably not worth it if the car is not even remapped and might not even make a real-world difference with a simple stage 1 in most cars ) : stick to paper filters ( i known i didn’t) :)
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thatsmr
> facw
05/09/2020 at 22:02 |
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True that, although aftermarket bits may not work in harmony with factory setup. I am still curious if you have the spica intact (dont remember what year the spider is)
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thatsmr
> thatsmr
05/09/2020 at 22:05 |
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Oops wrong response!
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Sovande
> CaptDale - is secretly British
05/10/2020 at 06:49 |
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It's enough to discount an entire line of products.
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Sovande
> Jb boin
05/10/2020 at 09:50 |
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The diesel engine in my boat probably cost $30,000 new. It comes from the Yanmar factory with a washable foam filter that stretches around a rigid metal filter frame. I can't imagine why I would change that critical part that was put in place by an engineering team tasked with making sure the motor lasts for the 10,000 hours they are made to go. Why would K&N know better what this engine needs than the engineers at Yanmar?
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Jb boin
> Sovande
05/10/2020 at 10:17 |
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We agree as i said that a foam filter has many advantages over a cotton filter and o n a marine environment, a paper or cotton filter might deteriorate faster with the extreme humidity and risk of “splash” while there is less dirt on the water so the filtration of small particulate is less critical than on a terrestrial vehicle .
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CaptDale - is secretly British
> Sovande
05/10/2020 at 11:39 |
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I would say there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.